SAE Fatigue Design and Evaluation Committee Meeting

October 24, 2002

To: All SAE F.D.& E. members --From: John Hakala

Unconfirmed Minutes - Fatigue Design & Evaluation Comm. Organizational Meeting Honeywell Aircraft Landing Systems, South Bend , IN October 24, 2002

The meeting was called to order at 9:10 am by chairman John Hakala.

John briefly went over some administrative items and discussed the agenda for the day.

The first order of business the group wanted to discuss was why the regular October SAE FD&E meeting was cancelled. Many in the group were very upset that the meeting was cancelled. John stated that as of late August, reservations at the hotel Fargo were very limited (9) and some of the division chairs could not get speakers for their division meetings. Is there a lack of interest and why?

A lack of resources does not mean a lack of interest.

Comments included: the structure of the FD&E meetings has become more like a conference than a working group, wrong projects? Should we restructure - eliminate divisions, and work together as one group (including the surface enhancement group.)

The question was asked, what do people want from FD&E? .... Long silence....Are you willing to work on FD&E projects one day a month? We should have focused technical sessions on fatigue design methodology with hands-on-projects.

Al Conle mentioned a material data base / files however, there must be Company buy in (legal reasons). Gary Mauritzson recalled that SAE FD&E managed a material properties database (J1099) 15 yrs. ago. Tom Oakwood (AISI) discussed an ongoing AISI/industry project that is determining fatigue properties for steel alloys. Companies pool funds for fatigue testing and have exclusive rights to the data for two years. AISI is managing the project.

John Hakala stated that he would like to continue and even expand the use of e-mail and the web for FD&E communications. He said it worked well in communicating comments and opinions for this meeting.

Dan Lingenfelser and Mary Wickham (via conference call) discussed the importance of continuing the FD&E short course. They also suggested the virtual prototyping project should continue.

John Hakala presented a proposal from SAE for support of FD&E which included minimum support for $100 /meeting and extended support for $250 /meeting (see attached SAE proposal). The group did not show support for the proposal. There was discussion on what support is needed for FD&E. The major support was for publishing standards and papers. The rest of the administration could be handled within the committee.

John Hakala mentioned a communication from Mike Mitichell that suggested FD&E join ASTM E08. However, many comments were made from the group that ASTM meets in high-cost (hotels) locations and how Company management would view meetings in these locations as a "boondoggle". John also mentioned the possibility of e-mail and web meetings.

Many in the group wanted to focus on projects so much of the agenda was by-passed. Suggestions for projects included:

- welds - crackgrowth - castings - porosity, scatter in data, aluminum engine materials - elevated temperatures, cast iron - FEA confirmation - what is not being addressed elsewhere. - advanced design methods - shorter test -- acceleration, less tests to prove analysis - lightweight material substitution - fracture analysis

Mohammad El-Zein voiced interest in weld fatigue and volunteered data for analysis and comparison purposes. Some of the group had concerns about sharing test results due to proprietary issues. Mohammad suggested sanitizing the data.

Ford suggested welded aluminum joints, rivets, weld-bonded joints.

After extended discussions by several member of the group, Gary Mauritzson presented a short list of projects: - shorter tests - analysis / accelerated tests, plate w/ hole for verification - welds - crack growth / verification - castings - fatigue properties, elevated temp., porosity - virtual prototyping - shoot it, book it, conference - short course - high interest, 2-day, take it on the road

Peter Kurath read a letter from Darrall Socie discussing his view of the FD&E committee (see attached letter). The ATV program generated interest but not wide participation. There were no clear customers. What is the next "ground breaking technology" in Fatigue that the companies need, will fund, and we can work on?

The group went back to discussing a main project. The majority of the group supported a joint/weld fatigue modeling project that includes analytical / testing and verification. Hotspot strain analysis - correlate measured strain in region. Mohammad has data on tubular samples he could share. John and Peter suggested a call for papers on the state of technology for weld analysis. It was suggested that the Edison Welding Institute be contacted.

The next meeting will be held in Peoria , IL on April 15 & 16, 2003 hosted by Caterpillar. Joint/weld project will be developed further at this meeting. State of the joint/weld technology will be presented. Possible contributors: Mohamad El-Zein, Michelle Wegscheid, Josh Horn, Al Conle Hari Agrawal, Sherri Shepherd, Dan Lingenfelser, and Mary Wickham. A wrap-up of the ATV/virtual prototype project by Ric Mousseau. Planning of accelerated testing and analysis of castings will be continued. The second day will include an extended planning session.

 

Two Fuchs awards will be presented at the April, 2003 meeting.

The agenda for the April 2003 meeting needs to be completed by end of January, 2003.

 

Respectfully submitted, Russell Chernenkoff & John Hakala

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From: Peter Kurath [p-kurath(at)uiuc.edu] Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 12:44 PM To: Jmhakala(at)aol.com Subject: Fwd: SAE meeting

 X-Sender: d-socie(at)staff.cso.uiuc.edu Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 11:15:44 -0500 To: p-kurath(at)uiuc.edu

From: Darrell Socie <d-socie(at)uiuc.edu Subject: SAE meeting Mime-Version: 1.0

Peter I am unable to addend the SAE meeting as planned. Please express my regrets. Here are a few thoughts to share with the group. There has been some discussion about past programs within the committee. I am probably one of the few who has tested and analyzed keyhole specimens, notched shafts and ATV frames. The motivation and circumstances surrounding these programs were all very different. The keyhole program was a result of the introduction of new technology, both strain-life and fracture mechanics, and the introduction of the mini-computer in the laboratory. It was easy to get participation because it was part of everyone's normal job. This was a time when most companies had a mechanics group that was charged with implementing new methods and then verifying that they worked. The test program was a way to share the costs of doing all of the validation tests. It was an easy to find the funding, both internal and external, for the work because people were already committed to do it. The SAE FD&E was a focal point for fatigue in the ground vehicle industry and people who wanted to learn the techniques and interact with the "experts" came to the meetings. This resulted in many other smaller projects because of the large number of participants. At the same time, there was a substantial amount of funding available to the universities from the federal government for basic research in fatigue. The notched shaft program took a slightly different path. The committee was looking for something new to do. Finite element methods were becoming well established and people wanted to know what to do with the three dimensional stresses and strains. Both Drew Nelson of Stanford and I were already doing research work in multiaxial fatigue funded by various federal agencies. We convinced Dale Galliart , then committee chairman, that this would be a good project for the group. Drew and Dale got an university-industry NSF grant to work on this project. An NSF grant was something new to Deere so everyone wanted to make sure it was a success. I got a separate NSF grant to work on this project. We essentially had a customer for the work so we had to do it. The later induction harden shaft work was championed by Tom Cordes. This work was conducted at a time when multiaxial fatigue was a "hot" topic both here and in Europe so there was considerably more interest and work outside the SAE group. Major participation, running tests, doing extensive analysis etc. was limited to a few people within the SAE group. Many other people contributed on the periphery doing what they could with their limited time and resources. Compared to the keyhole program, the number of real participants was much lower. The ATV project generated a lot of interest but not much real participation. After a large amount of initial enthusiasm, the project has made little progress. Unlike the other projects, we were never able to sell the ATV project to secure the necessary funding. Despite a large effort, Ric Mousseau and I were only able to get a modest amount of funding from Deere for a couple of years. At the moment there is no funding to continue any work on this project. Even though we think this is a good idea and a worthwhile effort, working on this project is not part of anyone's job and there is no clearly identified customer. As a result, participation has a low priority, even for those who want to. Without a strong core program, other people are even less likely to contribute because they do not see their effort going anywhere. At the same time I think the SAE FD&E is no longer the focal point for fatigue in the ground vehicle industry and does not attract new people to the meetings who wanted to learn the techniques . As a result of the ATV program, what new knowledge, say in the last two years, has been generated that will attract people to the meeting? In my view, members of the committee no longer have the resources to undertake even a modest experimental or analytical program as they have in the past and should not try to do it. In some respects this committee parallels the development of the Fracture Control Program at the University. Thirty years ago the program had a ten sponsors and supported about 10 students doing research work and generating new knowledge. Today we have six sponsors and do not directly support any students. Yet the program is stronger than ever. How? We justify our program fee to the sponsors through all of the training that we do for them. We have essentially moved from generating new knowledge to disseminating existing knowledge to people who need to know. We continue to draw 150 - 200 people per year from just six companies to our training. Bye the way, we do more fatigue research than ever before. But it is not funded by the program. Much of my funding comes to work on durability of ceramic coatings. Other faculty are working on high temperature problems, others are doing fundamental studies, both numerical and experimental. None of this work falls within the existing scope of the SAE FD&E activities. What should we do? Eliminate all of the current activities. If you can't do it well, why do it? Instead, follow the lead of the Structural Integrity Society. They are a much smaller organization and have a much smaller potential audience. But they are very successful. Take a look at their events calender for this fall and spring.

14 & 15 October "Simulation, Test & Measurement Conference 2002"

7 November Achievements in Noise and Vibration

21 November "Fatigue Failure Investigation & Computational Methods"

19 March " 20th Annual Instrumentation, Analysis & Testing Exhibition

7-9 April "Fatigue 2003 - Fatigue Durability Assessment of Materials, Components and Structures"

8 May "Rubber and Vibration Isolation"

Why are they successful while the SAE group struggles. In my view they have a better product that people want to buy. _______________________________

Darrell Socie tel: 217 333 7630 University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign fax: 217 244 6534 Mechanical Engineering Department 1206 West Green Urbana, IL 61801

Peter Kurath University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign Department of Mechanical and Industrial Engineering 1206 W. Green St Urbana , IL 61801 USA ph. (217) 333-3751 fax, (217) 244-5707 e-mail: p-kurath(at)uiuc.edu